@import url('https://fonts.googleapis.com/css2?family=Inter:wght@300;400;700;900&display=swap'); @import url('https://fonts.googleapis.com/css2?family=Bitter&display=swap'); /* 全局 */ :root { --theme-base: "black-highlighter"; --theme-id: "blank"; --theme-name: "Blank Theme"; --logo-image: none; --header-title: "The Backrooms"; --header-subtitle: "你曾经来过这里"; --bb-black: 65, 65, 65; --bb-white: 253, 253, 253; --bb-accent-color: 63, 66, 50; --bb-accent-background: 215, 219, 204; --body-font: Inter, Noto Sans SC, Noto Sans TC, Arimo, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; --header-font: var(--body-font); --title-font: var(--body-font); --mono-font: Bitter, Noto Serif SC, Noto Serif TC, Consolas, monaco, monospace; --temp-font-1: Inter, Noto Sans SC, Noto Sans TC, Arimo, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; --temp-font-2: Bitter, Noto Serif SC, Noto Serif TC, Consolas, monaco, monospace; --white-monochrome: var(--bb-white); --pale-gray-monochrome: var(--bb-white); --light-gray-monochrome: var(--bb-white); --gray-monochrome: var(--bb-white); --black-monochrome: var(--bb-black); --bright-accent: var(--bb-black); --medium-accent: var(--bb-white); --dark-accent: var(--bb-black); --pale-accent: var(--bb-black); --swatch-topmenu-border-color: var(--bb-white); --swatch-menubg-dark-color: var(--bb-black); --rating-module-button-plus-color: var(--bb-black); --rating-module-button-negative-color: var(--bb-black); --rating-module-button-cancel-color: var(--bb-black); --rating-module-button-credit-color: var(--bb-black); --link-color: var(--bb-black); --hover-link-color: var(--bb-black); --visited-link-color: var(--bb-black); --background-gradient-distance: 0rem; --gradient-header: linear-gradient(to top, rgba(var(--medium-accent)) 0%, rgba(var(--medium-accent), 0.90) 100%); --diagonal-stripes: linear-gradient(transparent 0); } * { scrollbar-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)) transparent !important; } #page-content { font-size: 110%; } @media only screen and (max-width: 768px) { #page-content { font-size: 90%; } } ::selection { background: rgb(var(--black-monochrome)); color: rgb(var(--white-monochrome)); } ::-moz-selection { background: rgb(var(--black-monochrome)); color: rgb(var(--white-monochrome)); } #skrollr-body { background-image: none; } #container { background-image: none; } /* body::-webkit-scrollbar-thumb { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } body::-webkit-scrollbar-track { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } */ #main-content { padding-bottom: 3em; } /* 版头 */ #login-status, #login-status a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); opacity: 0; transition: opacity 300ms; } #login-status span.printuser { opacity: 0; transition: opacity 300ms; } #header:hover #login-status span.printuser, #header:focus-within #login-status span.printuser { opacity: 1; } #header:hover #login-status, #header:hover #login-status a, #header:focus-within #login-status, #header:focus-within #login-status a { opacity: 1; } #account-topbutton { border: none; } #account-options { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #login-status ul a { text-decoration: none; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); transition: background-color 300ms; } #login-status ul a:hover, #login-status ul a:focus { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } @media only screen and (max-width: 768px) { #search-top-box-form { display: none; } } #search-top-box-input { display: none; } #search-top-box-form>input.button.btn { opacity: 0; transition: opacity 300ms, color 300ms, background-color 300ms; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #search-top-box-form>input.button.btn:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #search-top-box-form input[type=submit]:focus, #search-top-box-form input[type=submit]:hover { text-shadow: none; } #header:hover #search-top-box-form>input.button.btn, #header:focus-within #search-top-box-form>input.button.btn { opacity: 1; } #header h1 a::before, #header h2 span::before { text-shadow: none; color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); transition: color 300ms, bottom 300ms; } #header:hover h1 a::before, #header:hover h2 span::before, #header:focus-within h1 a::before, #header:focus-within h2 span::before { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #header h1 a:before { position: relative; font-weight: 900 !important; bottom: 0; } #header:hover h1 a:before, #header:focus-within h1 a:before { bottom: 3px; } #header h2, #header h2 span, #header h2 span::before { position: absolute; top: 2rem; margin: 0; width: 100%; display: flex; justify-content: center; } /* 顶栏 */ #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>a, #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>a, #header:hover #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>div.open-menu>p>a, #header:focus-within #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>div.open-menu>p>a { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); transition: opacity 300ms; } #header:hover #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>a, #header:hover #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>a, #header:focus-within #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>a, #header:focus-within #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #header:hover #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>div.open-menu>p>a, #header:focus-within #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>div.open-menu>p>a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; } #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>.sfhover>a { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li:hover>a, #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li:focus-within>a { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>ul>li, #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>ul>li { transition: background 300ms; } #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:hover, #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:hover, #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:focus, #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:focus { background: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:hover a, #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:hover a, #top-bar div.mobile-top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:focus-within a, #top-bar div.top-bar>ul>li>ul>li:focus-within a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } /* 侧栏 */ #side-bar::-webkit-scrollbar { display: none !important; } #main-content::after { visibility: hidden; } #main-content::before { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } #side-bar div.side-block { border-right: none; } #side-bar .heading { border-top: 0.125rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); border-bottom: 0.125rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #side-bar .heading p { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); text-shadow: none; } #side-bar .menu-item, #side-bar .menu-item p { border-bottom: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } #side-bar div.menu-item a:not(a:first-child) { border-left: 0.15rem rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } #side-bar .side-block>.collapsible-block .collapsible-block-link { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); text-shadow: none; } #side-bar .side-block>.collapsible-block .collapsible-block-link:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } #side-bar div.menu-item a { transition: background-color 300ms; } #side-bar div.menu-item a:hover { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } #side-bar .side-block>.collapsible-block a.collapsible-block-link:after, #side-bar div.menu-item a.collapsible-block-link:after, #side-bar div.menu-item a::before { display: none; } #side-bar { position: fixed; border-right: 0.15rem solid transparent; } #content-wrap { margin-left: 0; } #side-bar:hover { border-right: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } @media only screen and (max-width: 768px) { #side-bar { border: none !important; } } /* 评分 */ .page-rate-widget-box, .rate-box-with-credit-button { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; border-color: transparent !important; box-shadow: none !important; } /* 页面元素 */ .radius-div>* { border-radius: 10px; } .error-inline { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); border: 1px solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } hr, .dashed-hr { margin: 1em 0; padding: 0; display: block; border: none; height: 2px; background-image: linear-gradient(90deg, rgb(var(--bb-black)) 0%, rgb(var(--bb-black)) 55%, rgb(var(--bb-white)) 55%, rgb(var(--bb-white)) 100%); background-size: 1em 2px; background-repeat: x-repeat } .solid-hr { margin: 1em 0; padding: 0; display: block; height: 2px; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .styled-hr { margin: 1em 0; padding: 0; display: block; position: relative; height: 0.15em; overflow: hidden; border: initial; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); -webkit-clip-path: polygon(50% 10%, 100% 50%, 50% 90%, 0% 50%); clip-path: polygon(50% 10%, 100% 50%, 50% 90%, 0% 50%); } .avatar-hover { display: none !important; } .avatarhover a { text-decoration: none; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); -webkit-box-decoration-break: clone; box-decoration-break: clone; transition: color 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1); background-color 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1); } .avatarhover:hover a { text-decoration: none; color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } #action-area .avatarhover:hover a { background-color:rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #page-content a:not([href*="user"]):not([href*="javascript:;"]):not([href*="#u-credit-view"]), #page-content .avatarhover, .hovertip a, .classic-collap a.collapsible-block-link { padding: 0.15em; margin: -0.15em; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); -webkit-box-decoration-break: clone; box-decoration-break: clone; box-shadow: inset 0 -0.125rem 0 0rem rgb(var(--bb-black)); transition: box-shadow 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1), color 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1); } #page-content a:not([href*="user"]):not([href*="javascript:;"]):not([href*="#u-credit-view"]):hover, #page-content .avatarhover:hover, .hovertip a:hover, .classic-collap a.collapsible-block-link:hover { box-shadow: inset 0 -1.5em 0 0 rgb(var(--bb-black)); text-decoration: none; color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } #page-title, .meta-title { margin: 0 auto 0.6em; text-align: center; font-size: 30px !important; } /* 目录 & 折叠 */ #toc { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: solid 0.15rem rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); padding: 0; } #toc-action-bar { padding: 0 !important; } #toc-list { margin: 0.5em; } #toc-action-bar>a, a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *) { display: inline-block; transition: background-color 300ms; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); text-decoration: none !important; } a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *) { padding-right: 0.4em; } .collapsible-block { margin: 1em 0; } #toc-action-bar>a { width: 100%; } #toc-action-bar>a:hover, a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *):hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #toc-action-bar>a:nth-child(1)::before, #toc-action-bar>a:nth-child(2)::before, .collapsible-block-folded a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *)::before, .collapsible-block-unfolded-link a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *)::before { margin: 0 0.2em 0 0.4em; content: "▼"; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: transparent; visibility: visible; display: inline-block; } #toc-action-bar>a:nth-child(1):hover::before, #toc-action-bar>a:nth-child(2):hover::before, .collapsible-block-folded a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *):hover::before, .collapsible-block-unfolded-link a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *):hover::before { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } #toc-action-bar>a:nth-child(2)::before, .collapsible-block-folded a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *)::before { animation-name: collapsible-arrow-spin; animation-duration: 0.3s; animation-iteration-count: 1; animation-timing-function: cubic-bezier(.32, .38, .39, .94); animation-fill-mode: forwards; } #toc-action-bar>a:nth-child(1)::before, .collapsible-block-unfolded-link a.collapsible-block-link:not(.classic-collap *):not(.styled-collap *)::before { animation-name: collapsible-arrow-spin-back; animation-duration: 0.3s; animation-iteration-count: 1; animation-timing-function: cubic-bezier(.32, .38, .39, .94); animation-fill-mode: forwards; } @keyframes collapsible-arrow-spin { from { transform: rotate(0deg); } to { transform: rotate(-90deg); } } @keyframes collapsible-arrow-spin-back { from { transform: rotate(-90deg); } to { transform: rotate(0deg); } } /* 分页 */ .yui-navset .yui-nav { border: solid 3px rgb(var(--bb-black)); box-shadow: none; } .yui-navset .yui-nav a, .yui-navset .yui-navset-top .yui-nav a { transition: background-color 300ms; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .yui-navset .yui-nav a:hover, .yui-navset .yui-nav a:focus { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } .yui-navset .yui-nav .selected, .yui-navset .yui-navset-top .yui-nav .selected { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } .yui-navset .yui-nav .selected a { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; } .yui-navset .yui-nav .selected a:focus, .yui-navset .yui-nav .selected a:active { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } .yui-navset .yui-nav li, .yui-navset .yui-navset-top .yui-nav li { box-shadow: 0 0 0 .0625rem rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } .yui-navset .yui-content { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: none; margin: 0; padding: 0.25em 0; } /* 图像框 */ .scp-image-block { border: none; box-shadow: none; } .scp-image-block .scp-image-caption { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: none !important; } .reversed-image .scp-image-block .scp-image-caption { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .bordered-image .scp-image-block { border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } /* 表格 */ table.wiki-content-table tr, table.wiki-content-table th, table.wiki-content-table td { border: .2rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; } table.wiki-content-table th { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } /* DIVs */ .code { border: dashed 0.15rem rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .code::-webkit-scrollbar-thumb { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .code::-webkit-scrollbar-track { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } .blockquote, blockquote { border: solid 0.15rem rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; box-shadow: none !important; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)) !important; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; } .lightblock { margin-left: 0; border: solid 0.15rem rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; box-shadow: none !important; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .darkblock { --bb-black: var(--white-monochrome); --bb-white: var(--black-monochrome); margin-left: 0; border: none !important; box-shadow: none !important; background: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .darkblock * { --bb-black: var(--white-monochrome); --bb-white: var(--black-monochrome); } .styled-quote { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); margin-left: 0; border-left: solid 0.4rem rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; box-shadow: none !important; padding-top: 0; padding-bottom: 0; } .dotted-quote { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); padding: 0.01rem 1rem; margin: 0.5rem 0; border: dashed 0.15rem rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .dotted-quote hr { background-image: none; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); height: 0px; border-top: dashed 0.15rem rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .accent-block { --bb-black: var(--bb-accent-color); --bb-white: var(--bb-accent-background); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); padding: 0.01rem 1rem; margin: 0.5rem 0; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .accent-block * { --bb-black: var(--bb-accent-color); --bb-white: var(--bb-accent-background); } .accent-block .darkblock { --bb-black: var(--bb-accent-background) !important; --bb-white: var(--bb-accent-color) !important; } /* 脚注 */ a.footnoteref { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: transparent; transition: background-color 300ms; text-decoration: none !important; padding: 0 0.2em; } a.footnoteref:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .hovertip { border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; } .hovertip .f-footer { display: none; } #page-content>div.footnotes-footer { border-left: solid 0.4rem rgb(var(--bb-black)); margin-top: 1rem; } .footnotes-footer .footnote-footer a:nth-child(1) { text-decoration: none; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } /* 标签 */ .page-tags { margin: 0 auto; text-align: center !important; } .page-tags a { line-height: inherit; font-weight: 600; } .page-tags span { border-top: none; border-bottom: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .page-tags span a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); -webkit-box-decoration-break: clone; box-decoration-break: clone; transition: box-shadow 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1), color 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1), padding 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1), margin 300ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0.0, 0.2, 1); } .page-tags span a:hover { box-shadow: inset 0 -1.5em 0 0 rgb(var(--bb-black)); text-decoration: none; color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } /* 按钮 */ div#page-options-bottom-2>a, div#page-options-bottom>a { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); font-weight: 600 !important; color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); border-radius: 0em; -moz-border-radius: 0em; border: 0.15rem solid transparent; text-decoration: none !important; transition: border 300ms, background-color 300ms; } #prw54355 { font-weight: 600 !important; } div#page-options-bottom-2>a:active, div#page-options-bottom-2>a:hover, div#page-options-bottom>a:active, div#page-options-bottom>a:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); text-decoration: none !important; } /* 信息 */ #page-info { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } div.page-watch-options { visibility: hidden; } @media only screen and (max-width: 768px) { #page-info { display: none; } } /* 页脚 */ #license-area { display: none; } #footer { display: none !important; } /* 操作 */ #owindow-1 { border-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #who-rated-page-area>div>span { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; } #who-rated-page-area .avatarhover:hover a { transition: background-color 300ms; } #who-rated-page-area .avatarhover:hover a { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #action-area input.text::-webkit-scrollbar-thumb, #action-area textarea::-webkit-scrollbar-thumb { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #action-area input.text::-webkit-scrollbar-track, #action-area textarea::-webkit-scrollbar-track { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border-left: rgb(var(--bb-black)) 0.15rem solid; } #action-area input.text::-webkit-resizer, #action-area textarea::-webkit-resizer { border-top: rgb(var(--bb-black)) 0.15rem solid; border-left: rgb(var(--bb-black)) 0.15rem solid; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } textarea, input.text, input.checkbox, div.note, #lock-info { border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)) !important; } table.form td div.sub, form div.sub { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .pager a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); text-decoration: none !important; transition: background-color 300ms; } .pager .current { border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .pager a:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .change-textarea-size a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); transition: background-color 300ms; text-decoration: none; } .change-textarea-size a:hover, .change-textarea-size a:active { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .owindow .button-bar a, a.button, button, div.buttons input, file, input.button { background: rgb(var(--bb-white)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); border-radius: 0em !important; -moz-border-radius: 0em !important; border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); transition: border 300ms, background-color 300ms; } .page-source { border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); font-family: var(--mono-font); } .owindow .button-bar a:active, .owindow .button-bar a:hover, a.button:active, a.button:hover, button:active, button:hover, div.buttons input:active, div.buttons input:hover, file:active, file:hover, input.button:active, input.button:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); border: 0.15rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); } .preview-message { border: 0.15rem dotted rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } a.action-area-close:hover { background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } table.page-history td.optionstd a { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); border: none; text-decoration: none; background-color: transparent; transition: background-color 300ms; } table.page-history td.optionstd a:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } select { font-family: var(--body-font); border: 0.1rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } /* 特殊折叠 */ .styled-collap .collapsible-block { margin: 0.5rem 0; } .styled-collap a.collapsible-block-link { text-decoration: none; display: block; padding: 0.3rem 0.5rem; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); } .styled-collap .collapsible-block-content { padding: 0.01rem 1rem; background-color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); border: 0.125rem solid rgb(var(--bb-black)); border-top: none; } .styled-collap .collapsible-block-folded a.collapsible-block-link::before { margin: 0 0.2em 0 0.4em; content: "▶"; color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: transparent; display: inline-block; } .styled-collap .collapsible-block-unfolded a.collapsible-block-link::before { margin: 0 0.2em 0 0.4em; content: "▼"; color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); background-color: transparent; visibility: visible; display: inline-block; } /* 更多标题 */ .classic-title { text-align: left; border-bottom: 3px rgb(var(--bb-black)) solid; padding: 0; margin-top: 0.6em !important; margin-bottom: 0.6em !important; } .classic-title p { margin-bottom: 0.2em; } .new-title { display: flex; margin-top: 0.6em !important; margin-bottom: 0.6em !important; } .new-title p { display: flex; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0; } .new-title::after { content: ""; flex-grow: 1; height: 3px; margin: auto auto auto 1.2rem; background: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } /* SD 适配 */ .sd-container { --sd-border: var(--bb-black); --sd-bullets: var(--bb-black) !important; } /* 授权栏适配 */ #page-content .licensebox .collapsible-block-link { color: rgb(var(--bb-black)); } #page-content .licensebox .collapsible-block-link:hover { color: rgb(var(--bb-white)); }
迁移至不同的Wiki托管平台?
是否应将Minecraft Wiki分叉至另一个Wiki托管平台?这一设想已被多次提出,包括上方直接关联的议题,但近期在Discord平台上的深入讨论使其具有相当程度的现实可能性,故有必要在Wiki站内展开正式探讨。
多位编辑者已对Fandom现状表达了不满,具体包括但不限于以下方面:
- 登出读者的阅读体验下降,部分原因在于大量广告(包括插入Wiki内容中间、伪装成内容部分的广告)、显眼的Fandom黄色导航栏,以及弹窗(例如要求读者确认年龄以个性化广告的弹窗)。
- Fandom优先考虑自身利益和用户黏性而非Wiki社区需求。例如:
- 文件页面对登出用户不可见以提升谷歌搜索排名(SEO)。虽然不影响多数读者,但这使读者无法查看文件历史(其他MediaWiki Wiki的基本功能),同时隐藏了下载原始画质图片的链接(仅提供压缩版本)。
- 在页面顶部添加Fandom自创小测验等功能,常以模糊的「用户参与度」数据作为理由。
- 前述黄色侧边栏以强化Fandom品牌形象为由添加,但与Wiki风格不协调、不可自定义,且未经过讨论或意见征集便强制实施。
- 在「粉丝动态流」和全屏搜索结果等位置添加其他Wiki(部分涉及争议话题)及无关Fandom文章的链接。
- Fandom单方面将非官方麦当劳Wiki的多个页面(包括首页)改为变相广告宣传。事前仅在不活跃的管理员留言板留下模糊提及合作关系的通知,未获明确同意且未告知完整变更内容。虽此类情况在本Wiki发生可能性较低,但该行为已引发社区严重关切。
- 基于前述因素,社区认为本Wiki在Minecraft社群中的声誉受损。在r/Minecraft等讨论区及各类Discord服务器中,不时出现对Wiki或Fandom的抱怨,有时甚至将错误信息等无关问题归咎于Fandom,或误认为迁移后Wiki确实丢失了内容。当然,这些声音未必代表多数读者观点,因满意度较高的用户通常更少发声。
- 社区感觉迁移至Fandom后编辑者数量和整体活跃度下降(甚至在关闭登出编辑功能前已如此)。若能获取确切数据将更有助于论证。
- 影响编辑工作的各类小故障和功能缺失,例如CirrusSearch失效导致无法搜索子页面(包括讨论页存档)、搜索栏不识别「MCW:TALK」等命名空间快捷方式。
- 实现独立运营、脱离Wiki农场的主张也受到部分编辑者的青睐。
当然,更换托管平台并非易事。值得注意的是,Fandom的分叉政策要求现有的Wiki必须保持原样,并且任何指向新Wiki的链接展示时间不得超过两周。这意味着,我们基本上需要创建一个拥有相同内容和修订历史的新Wiki,并将编辑群体迁移至新Wiki(前提是社区知晓并同意此次迁移)。Fandom上的Wiki虽然将不再有现有的编辑者参与,但会继续保留,且没有任何迹象表明它已迁移。由于Fandom的高搜索引擎优化排名,它很可能在谷歌搜索结果中与新的Wiki竞争并占据更高排名。
因此,我们将不得不通过其他方式推广新的Wiki。目前,我们与更广泛的社区互动不多,也缺乏官方支持。鉴于社区普遍对Fandom抱有负面情绪,他们很可能会帮助传播消息并将人们引导至新的Wiki,但我不确定这能起到多大作用。一些编辑者也建议联系内容创作者来协助推广。
托管平台的选择是另一个重要因素,我们这里有两个主要选项。一个是wiki.gg,一个由前Gamepedia员工运营的Wiki农场,一些Wiki如Terraria已经迁移至此。另一个选项是半独立托管,即一个独立实体管理后端任务,包括托管和财务(例如与广告商谈判),但在其他方面让Wiki自行管理。这比在Wiki农场上给我们更大的独立性(例如更大的自定义Wiki皮肤的余地),但同时将更多责任放在社区成员身上,而不是与Wiki农场的员工分担,但远不如Wiki自行托管那么多。已经联系我们的两个托管方是Bulbapedia的托管方;以及ABXY,一个托管多个wiki的托管方,包括Inkipedia、StrategyWiki和Zelda Wiki。
User:MarkusRost/fork及此谷歌表格中概述了迄今讨论的各项考量因素及其在不同平台上的现状概览,但这当然不是讨论的完整记录。
因此,需要讨论的主要问题是:Wiki是否应该分叉,以及如果应该,要分叉到哪里?——Sonicwave 2023年6月14日05:49(UTC)
以下是对本次讨论中提出的分叉相关补充理由及担忧的总结:
- Fandom缺乏透明度、以Fandom品牌取代Gamepedia品牌(及其对社区声誉的影响)、迁移过程中的功能流失,以及据Glassdoor评论和Fandom及前Gamepedia员工裁员所反映的有毒的公司文化,也被视为导致该平台负面前景的因素。
- 由于谷歌会在搜索结果中隐藏重复内容,新Wiki上的大量页面需在内容或布局上做出显著改动,以区别于Fandom Wiki上的现有页面。
- 部分语言Wiki因其规模较小、活跃度较低而对分叉表示担忧,并选择先观察英文Wiki分叉的成效再考虑自身行动。——Sonicwave 2023年7月6日06:09(UTC)
在备选托管平台中,我倾向于选择wiki.gg,因为我已经在该平台拥有账户(我也曾参与编辑Terraria Wiki),而对其他平台并不熟悉😉。就迁移本身而言,尽管Minecraft Wiki已非「官方」Wiki,但我认为微软和Mojang推广新站点(无论最终选址何处)的难度将远低于Re-Logic在Terraria Wiki案例中的处境;毕竟我们讨论的是由全球顶级IT企业持有的最畅销电子游戏。他们甚至拥有自己的搜索引擎——虽然操纵Bing使其优先显示新站点而非Fandom会显得不光彩。——Babylon 2023年6月14日07:28(UTC)
作为主管,我主要有一个顾虑。例如法语Wiki规模太小,难以承受迁移带来的影响。如果能建立与Fandom站点双向指向的跨Wiki链接,即英文Wiki链接至Fandom的法语Wiki,反之亦然,将会非常理想。——MetalManiacMc 2023年6月14日08:11(UTC)
可惜这无法实现。Fandom不会允许链接至其他农场的Wiki。你们将继续链接到这个Wiki。——TreeIsLife 2023年6月14日08:18(UTC)
分叉是否会全面进行,即覆盖所有语言版本,而不仅仅是英文版(或许再加上几个其他较大的版本)?——BabylonAS 2023年6月14日08:41(UTC)
此次分叉也将涵盖所有有意向参与的语言Wiki。预计大多数活跃的语言Wiki很可能会跟随英文Wiki进行迁移。请注意,根据托管平台的不同,各语言Wiki的分叉可能不会与英文Wiki同步进行,而是延迟最多数周。——MarkusRost 2023年6月14日17:12(UTC)
中文Wiki一直在考虑此事,但我们确实看不到更优选择(我们有很多迁移和不迁移的理由,但情况有点复杂)。正如法语Wiki的顾虑,即使英文Wiki能够迁移,其他语言Wiki也会面临规模过小难以独立存活的问题。由于Fandom不允许跨Wiki链接至其他农场(还需考虑SEO因素),这将成为要么全部迁移、要么全部留下的局面。——Lakejason0 2023年6月14日09:05(UTC)
迁移的两大主要原因是网络访问状况(近期在中国大陆访问速度过慢)以及中文Wiki缺乏IWR权限,换言之即权限缺失(这是由于Fandom中文社区中心团队成员均因法律限制或其他原因无法受雇于Fandom)。而不迁移的理由自然也包含网络访问条件(所有备选平台的访问体验均无改善)和权限不足(目前中国大陆的所有Wiki农场对MediaWiki的了解程度远不及运营多年的Fandom,或因政策限制我们无法入驻)。——Lakejason0 2023年6月14日09:11(UTC)
是的,这正是我们所担忧的——考虑到SEO(搜索引擎优化)以及新用户对分叉行动的看法,尤其是对其他语言版本Minecraft Wiki的影响。对于中文Wiki而言,我认为分叉无法解决我们的核心问题,即SEO权重转移、新Wiki农场的接受度,以及如何引导新用户访问和编辑我们的Wiki。——Lxazl5770 2023年6月14日10:11(UTC)
== Move to a different wiki host? ==
Should the Minecraft Wiki fork to another wiki host? This idea has been brought up many times, including in the topic directly above, but recently it has been discussed at length on Discord and has a serious enough possibility that it warrants an on-wiki discussion.
Many editors have voiced some discontent with the current situation on Fandom, including, but not limited to:
* Degraded logged-out reader experience, due in part to the large number of ads (including ads inserted in the middle of wiki content to look like part of it), the obtrusive yellow Fandom navigation bar, and popups, including one asking readers to confirm their age to personalize the ads shown
* Fandom prioritizing its own interests and engagement over those of wiki communities. Examples include:
** File pages being made inaccessible to logged-out users in order to boost Google rankings (SEO). While not affecting most readers, this makes it impossible for readers to view file histories (a basic functionality available on other MediaWiki wikis), and also hides the link to download the original-quality versions of images, as opposed to compressed versions
** Adding features like [https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Brandon_Rhea/Fandom_is_expanding_Trivia_Quizzes_after_a_year_of_successful_experimentation Fandom-created quizzes] to the top of pages, often citing vague statistics on "engagement" as justification
** The aforementioned yellow sidebar, which was justified as reinforcing Fandom's branding, but looks out of place on the wiki, is uncustomizable, and was added without discussion or opportunities for feedback
** Adding links to other wikis (some of which cover questionable topics) and unrelated Fandom articles in places like the Fan Feed and full-page search results
** Fandom unilaterally converting several pages on the unofficial McDonald's wiki to effectively become an ad campaign, [https://mcdonalds.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Diff/29616 including the main page]. The only communication about this beforehand were messages left on the admins message walls (both of which are inactive and didn't give express agreement), vaguely mentioning partnerships but not the full extent of the changes. While perhaps unlikely to happen on this wiki, these actions have been viewed with significant concern by the community.
* A sentiment that the wiki has lost some respect in the larger Minecraft community due to the previous factors. Complaints about the wiki or Fandom appear every now and then on various discussion spaces like r/Minecraft and various Discord servers, often ascribing to Fandom unrelated factors like misinformation or believing that the wiki has actually ''lost'' information after the move. Of course, these vocal opinions do ''not'' necessarily reflect the general view of the readerbase as people with less negative opinions are less likely to speak up.
* A sense that the number of editors and overall activity has declined after moving to Fandom, even before logged-out editing was disabled. It would be nice to get some hard numbers on this if possible.
* Various minor glitches and loss of features that affect editor workflow, such as the loss of CirrusSearch removing the ability to search within subpages (including talk page archives) and namespace shortcuts like "MCW:TALK" not working in the search bar
* The very idea of being independent and not under a wiki farm is also seen as favorable by some
Of course, switching hosts will not be a simple task. Notably, Fandom's [https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Forking_Policy forking policy] requires the current wiki to be left intact and any links to the new wiki to not be displayed for longer than the first two weeks. This means that we will basically be creating a new wiki with the same content and revision history brought over, and moving the editor-base to the new wiki (assuming the community is aware of and agrees to the move). The Fandom wiki, while no longer having its existing editors, will continue to remain up without any indication that it's moved, competing with and likely outranking the new wiki in Google search results due to Fandom's high SEO.
We will therefore have to promote the new wiki via other means. As of now we don't interact with the larger community much nor have official support. Given the general negative sentiment towards Fandom in the community, it's likely that they will help spread the news and redirect people to the new wiki, but I'm not sure how much this would help. Some editors have also suggested contacting content creators to help with promotion.
The choice of host is another important factor, and we have two main options here. One is '''wiki.gg''', a wiki farm run by former Gamepedia staff members where some wikis such as Terraria have moved to. The other option is '''semi-independent hosting''', where a separate entity manages backend tasks including hosting and finances (e.g. negotiating with advertisers), but leaves the wiki on its own in other regards. This gives us greater independence than being on a wiki farm (e.g. greater leeway to customize the wiki skin), while putting more responsibilities on community members as opposed to sharing it with the staff of a wiki farm, but not nearly as much as if the wiki were to host itself. The two hosts that have reached out to us are the host of [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Main_Page Bulbapedia]; and ABXY, a host of several wikis including [https://splatoonwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page Inkipedia], [https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Main_Page StrategyWiki] and [https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Wiki].
A rough overview of various considerations that have been discussed so far and their status on different platforms are outlined at [[User:MarkusRost/fork]] and [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XSoUPdf2-uDMs8LxtEh7OoX2KHNQwqggr8s8CzJ6YEk/edit#gid=0 this Google spreadsheet], but of course that is not a complete outline of the discussion.
So the main questions to discuss are, should the wiki fork and if so, where should it fork to? –'''[[User:Sonicwave|<span style="color:green">Sonicwave</span>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Sonicwave|talk]]</sup></small>''' 05:49, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
: To summarize some of the additional reasons and concerns with forking that have been given below in this discussion:
* Lack of transparency from Fandom, replacement of the Gamepedia brand with Fandom's (and its effect on community reputation), loss of features during the migration, and toxic company culture (according to [https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Fandom-Reviews-E428648.htm Glassdoor reviews] and layoffs of Fandom and former Gamepedia employees) have also been cited as factors contributing to the negative outlook of this platform.
* As Google hides duplicate content in search results, a large number of pages on the new wiki will need to be significantly changed in content or layout in order to be differentiated with existing pages on the Fandom wiki.
* Some language wikis have expressed concerns with forking due to their smaller size and lower activity, and have opted to first observe how successful the fork of the English wiki is before considering forking themselves.<br>–'''[[User:Sonicwave|<span style="color:green">Sonicwave</span>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Sonicwave|talk]]</sup></small>''' 06:09, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
: Out of the alternative hosts, I'd prefer wiki.gg as I already have an account there (I also edit(ed) the Terraria wiki), and I'm unfamiliar with others 😉 As far the transition itself, while Minecraft Wiki is no longer an "official" wiki as such, I feel Microsoft and Mojang would have much easier times popularizing the wiki at its new site (if and wherever would it be) than Re-Logic in case of Terraria; after all, we're talking about the best selling video game, owned by one of the largest IT companies out there. They even have a search engine of their own, though rigging Bing to prefer the new site over Fandom would feel dirty. — <b style="line-height:19px;letter-spacing:1px">[[user:BabylonAS|Babylon]][[user talk:BabylonAS|AS]]</b> 07:28, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
: As a Director, I have one main reservation. The French wiki for instance is too small to survive a move, it would be nice if we could have interwikis pointing in and out of Fandom, so the EN wiki links to the FR Fandom, and vice-versa. --[[User:MetalManiacMc|MetalManiacMc]], [[:fr:Utilisateur:MetalManiacMc|French Minecraft Wiki]] Administrator 08:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:: That won't be possible unfortunately. Fandom wouldn't allow to link to a wiki on different farm. You'll continue linking to this wiki. --[[User:TreeIsLife|TreeIsLife]] ([[User talk:TreeIsLife|talk]]) 08:18, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
::: Won't the fork be total, i. e. cover ''all'' the language sections, not just the English one (with perhaps a few other larger ones)? — <b style="line-height:19px;letter-spacing:1px">[[user:BabylonAS|Babylon]][[user talk:BabylonAS|AS]]</b> 08:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:::: The fork would include all language wikis interested in forking as well. It is assumed that most of the active language wikis are likely to follow the English wiki. Note that depending on the host the language wikis might not be forked at the same time as the English wiki but delayed by up to a few weeks. [[User:MarkusRost|MarkusRost]] ([[User talk:MarkusRost|talk]]) 17:12, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
: The ZH wiki has been considering this matter but we simply just couldn't see any better option to us (we have many reasons to move and to not move, but it's a bit complex). Just like the concern of FR wiki, even if EN could move, other languages would face the problem of being too small to survive a fork, and since interwiki to another wiki farm is impossible in Fandom (also considering SEO), it's an all-go or all-stay. -- <b style="font:100% Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:Lakejason0|<span style="color:#156fe6;">Lakejason0</span>]]'''</b> ([[User talk:Lakejason0|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lakejason0|Contribs]]) 09:05, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:: Two main reasons to move are network access condition (it's been too slow recently in China mainland) and the lack of missing IWR for ZH, in other words, permissions (it's due to all members in Fandom Community Central Crew of Chinese simply cannot be employed by Fandom due to either law restrictions or else). To not move of course is also network access condition (all options are not getting this better) and the lack of permissions (all wiki farms now in China mainland are either having little knowledge about MediaWiki compared to Fandom which has been so many years or we couldn't move into due to their policy). -- <b style="font:100% Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:Lakejason0|<span style="color:#156fe6;">Lakejason0</span>]]'''</b> ([[User talk:Lakejason0|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lakejason0|Contribs]]) 09:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
::: And yes, that's what we are concerned about - considering SEO and what will newcomers think of the forking action, especially for other languages of MCW. For zh-wiki I don't think forking can solve our main problem, that is, SEO and the acceptance of a new wiki farm, and also how to guide our new comers to access and edit in our wiki.--[[User:Lxazl5770|<span style="font-family:Segoe Print; color:HotPink;">'''Lxazl5770'''</span>]]<sub>'''zh.admin'''</sub>(<strong>[[User talk:Lxazl5770|论]]</strong> ▪ <strong>[[Special:contribs/Lxazl5770|功]]</strong>) 10:11, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
: I support the Minecraft Wiki forking. While either host is a vast improvement over Fandom, I would much prefer we became independent, forking to either ABXY or Bulba. This is for three main reasons:
:: 1. I believe independency should be the goal of any wiki, for editors to have complete control over the wiki and how it functions. While wiki.gg is a much better wiki farm than Fandom, I do not find the idea of being under another wiki farm ideal.
:: 2. Wiki.gg's philosophy of "we will add requested features only when it helps a wiki fork to us" irks me the wrong way immensely. Visual editor, a basic feature that I would consider a requirement for any wiki, was only implemented very recently despite it being highly requested for a long time. Notifications, a useful feature that we have felt the effects of not having due to Fandom breaking them, is not implemented on wiki.gg at all, and would only be added since it would further convince us to fork there. I find this unfair to the other wiki communities at wiki.gg, and I wonder if our concerns and requests will be so important to them once we are in their hands.
:: 3. I am quite active on Inkipedia, an independent wiki hosted by ABXY. My experience on that wiki makes me confident in the idea of independency, more specifically ABXY. - <span style="background:#ff2b3c;padding:2px"> '''[[User:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Harristic</span>]]''' <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> '''[[User talk:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> [[Special:Contributions/Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Contributions</span>]]'''</span> 09:53, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
: I do not support forking simply because having two similar wikis is disastrous, especially when the most known and visible one is out of date (fandom). For most non EN wikis the editor base is really small and one-time editors will likely edit the fandom one. It would bring so much work and so many issues that I don't find it worth it. [[User:Fusion thermonucleaire|Fusion thermonucleaire]] ([[User talk:Fusion thermonucleaire|talk]]) 10:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
: I support forking to a different host, preferably Bulba or ABXY (in that order - I view Bulba just a little more independent wiki-wise than ABXY), due to the high degree of independence we'll be getting, in the same spirit as Harristic. In an ideal world I'd prefer going fully independent. [[User:DarkShadowTNT|DarkShadowTNT]] ([[User talk:DarkShadowTNT|talk]]) 12:27, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:{{c|strong support}} to ABXY or Bulba.--[[User:Arceusgjengen|Arceusgjengen]] ([[User talk:Arceusgjengen|talk]]) 13:45, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
: If we move to a different host, would that mean that upgrading the software version will potentially become more difficult? A big company like Gamepedia or now Fandom has a much larger technical background and foundation than a smaller independent platform, and so I don't feel confidence in the alternatives mentioned when we want to keep up with the evolving MediaWiki. My preference goes to Mojang/Microsoft themselves. Let them host the wiki themselves, then we can finally call it official. But honestly I'm fine here too. If it were up to me I'd not move at all because I don't have a problem with this platform. [[User:Jack McKalling|Jack McKalling]] ([[User talk:Jack McKalling|talk]]) 17:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:: As far as I know moving to a different host wouldn't make upgrading the software substantially harder, all of our host options have their wikis on the most recent MediaWiki version. Why exactly would we want to have Microsoft host the wiki? We'd be labelled as official in exchange for being ruled over by a company that cares about us less than Fandom does, and having possibly even less freedom. Also we have no indication that Microsoft would host the wiki, so they're not an option.
:: - <span style="background:#ff2b3c;padding:2px"> '''[[User:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Harristic</span>]]''' <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> '''[[User talk:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> [[Special:Contributions/Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Contributions</span>]]'''</span> 18:20, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
::: As for Mojang/Microsoft hosting the wiki, that's definitely not not an option. We just need to ask them, and figure out what options are there. Because before you've asked, the answer will always be no. It shouldn't be swept off the table just yet. I'm currently in a conversation with them about this, lets see what they're saying. [[User:Jack McKalling|Jack McKalling]] ([[User talk:Jack McKalling|talk]]) 20:08, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:::: You are currently discussing the idea of Mojang/Microsoft hosting this wiki with Mojang/Microsoft themselves? Who exactly are you talking to, and why have other community members not been invited into this discussion? - <span style="background:#ff2b3c;padding:2px"> '''[[User:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Harristic</span>]]''' <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> '''[[User talk:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> [[Special:Contributions/Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Contributions</span>]]'''</span> 20:27, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
::::: It's not a public discussion, and I'm under NDA there. Let's see if something comes out of it. Which could be anything, including a public discussion. [[User:Jack McKalling|Jack McKalling]] ([[User talk:Jack McKalling|talk]]) 21:03, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:::::: Well, that's certainly interesting, forgive my surprise. Although I'm intrigued, I really don't think that being hosted by Microsoft is a good idea, for one we'd all probably be forced to use Microsoft accounts to log into the wiki. In a dream scenario we could be hosted by one of our other host options (wiki.gg, ABXY, or Bulba) while still being considered official and being promoted by Microsoft and Mojang. - <span style="background:#ff2b3c;padding:2px"> '''[[User:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Harristic</span>]]''' <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> '''[[User talk:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> [[Special:Contributions/Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Contributions</span>]]'''</span> 21:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:::::: This is completely unworkable, as far as I can tell. Microsoft cannot use any of the existing community-made content on this wiki, because the Minecraft Wiki is made available by fandom under the CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 license, which prohibits commercial use. [[User:Lordofpipes2|Lordofpipes2]] ([[User talk:Lordofpipes2|talk]]) 15:27, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
: I'll warn everyone now that while what I'm about to discuss will sound obstructionist, I'm not against forking the wiki. I just want to know if we have access to people who've done this to another Fandom wiki before, so we could ask how the experience went. What concerns me is that Fandom is a U.S. corporation (right?), and I believe that under U.S. Copyright law, Fandom has what's called a "compilation copyright" on the wiki. A compilation copyright covers making copies of an entire work that is composed of a number of component works, which may or may not have various kinds of individual copyright protections. Fandom hosts the wiki to make a profit. An exact duplicate of the wiki would create competition that eats into that profit. The compilation copyright idea exists specifically to prevent that from happening. So while CC-BY-SA allows you to make copies of individual articles, the compilation copyright can prevent you from copying the wiki as a whole. And even if Fandom choose nots to assert its compilation copyrights in such a case, they can't divest their rights (it's automatic, they didn't have to register or request anything like you would for a patent or trademark). So if in the future they feel like a fork is costing them views, they could change their mind and sue the fork host to take the wiki down and claim any profits it made. The forking policy does sound like they're willing to allow a fork, but it's not legally binding on them to honor it forever. The upshot is, we might have to rewrite a substantial number of articles if they change their mind. I'd like to know if other forked wikis have ever had issues like these.
: There's also the question of how much help they'd give us. The forking policy says they'd prefer to work out the issues that make a community want to fork, rather than just let them go. Do we have to go through a process of negotiation before they agree? If they agree, does that mean they'll make a copy of the wiki available to us? And some things, like certain templates, modules, and stylesheets, are their intellectual property; I presume we couldn't copy those.
: Admittedly, I am not a lawyer. I'd be very interested if any editors who are lawyers or law clerks would be willing to respond to this. — [[User:Auldrick|Auldrick]] ([[User talk:Auldrick|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Auldrick|contribs]]) 20:54, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:: I doubt actual lawyers would give any advice here; that said, I'm not a lawyer either, and this obviously isn't legal advice. I actually doubt Fandom has compilation copyright here - based on what legal texts I could find, it would require Fandom to have made creative value judgements about what to include on a wiki and how to include it; however, these decisions are made by community members. I found nothing that suggests applying compilation copyright to wikis is anything more than an untested legal theory, nor am I aware of other copyright challenges to forked wikis from original hosts.
:: Please list all wiki pages you believe to be exempt from the CC license, as well as the reasoning from the exemption you believe to exist. --[[User:AttemptToCallNil|AttemptToCallNil]] ([[User talk:AttemptToCallNil|talk]]) 05:09, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:: I don't Fandom would have any merit to an argument like this, in the US at least. Compilations are copyrightable based on the effort the author put into selection. The Minecraft Wiki is a crowdsourced effort put together by people who have agreed to CC BY-NC-SA, there is no top-down selection from Fandom. Other than deleting spam, which would clearly be considered unoriginal and unexpressive under copyright law. [[User:Lordofpipes2|Lordofpipes2]] ([[User talk:Lordofpipes2|talk]]) 15:20, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
:I received some information from this week's upcoming technical update to share with you all. It pertains to the one of the initial points "Adding links to other wikis (some of which cover questionable topics) and unrelated Fandom articles in places like the Fan Feed and full-page search results". On desktop (the experiment needs to be rerun on mobile) Fandom actually just productized a change from a successful experiment to only show content in the fan feed from the wiki the reader is currently on. This change was pushed out last week. So no more recommendations from other wikis, at least. — [[User:OishiiOnIno|OishiiOnIno]] <sup><small>([[User talk:OishiiOnIno| talk]] )</small></sup> <staff/> 23:26, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
::Another thing I can share with you all is that Fandom has actually been talking about a change to the global nav color for logged out users. I don’t have a final decision to share with y'all just yet, but can confirm the color is likely to change to something more muted. — [[User:OishiiOnIno|OishiiOnIno]] <sup><small>([[User talk:OishiiOnIno| talk]] )</small></sup> <staff/> 19:02, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
: As for my own opinion on forking: I've been pretty hesitant on the idea until recently, primarily due to the fact that the Fandom wiki won't be redirected. Having two competing wikis would increase confusion among readers, potentially decreasing the credibility of both wikis, and I'm unsure how effectively we can redirect readers and editors to the new wiki. As many or most readers likely don't participate in the Minecraft community, it's inevitable that a certain proportion of readers will be unreachable regardless of the amount of promotion we pull off. It's also possible that new editors will actively update the Fandom wiki, although this probably won't happen quickly given the relatively low participation in the wiki from the overall MC community.
: On the other hand, if we really want to fork and have good reasons for doing so, I don't think we should necessarily let this factor of "reader confusion" be the blocking factor. My motivation to work on the wiki has dropped in part due to the Fandom changes and the increased negative sentiment from the Minecraft community regarding Fandom and this wiki by extension. I also get a sense that the number of active editors and the overall motivation of the community has dwindled, although I'd like to get some hard statistics on editor count. However, I personally don't share the opinion that full wiki independence is of high importance and that wiki farms should be completely avoided; my concerns are mostly regarding the Fandom platform specifically.
: For these reasons, if we do decide to fork my preference would be to go to ''wiki.gg''. I think we'll need all the SEO we can get, and wiki.gg already has some platform recognition for hosting other forked wikis such as Terraria. It's been suggested that wiki farms tend to achieve better SEO than independent wikis, though I'd like someone with more knowledge to confirm this point. I'll give the caveat though that I'm much more familiar with wiki.gg than the other listed options.
: Also, this isn't to say that I see wiki.gg as without issue. As of writing they don't seem to have either on-site or email notifications set up, which to me seems like basic functionality for wiki editing. They also don't currently seem to support a proper mobile skin which may be an issue; I think accessibility and having a interface better than Fandom's will be important in getting users over. However, wiki.gg staff and other users in the wiki.gg community may be able to help us with designing supported skins as well as other technical issues. On other platforms, we may have more options regarding customization but will probably be more on our own, and I have doubts about putting this workload purely on community members, given the lack of initiative that sometimes happens (as seen by fact that large discussions move slowly and often stall or result in no action). –'''[[User:Sonicwave|<span style="color:green">Sonicwave</span>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Sonicwave|talk]]</sup></small>''' 06:35, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:I suggest that, in order to reduce ads, readers can be guided to use ad filters, but only block ads between page contents. Whatever part of the ads is blocked, some ads should be kept appropriately, after all, a large wiki farm cannot be sustained without any income.
:There's also a good idea to actively guide readers to sign up and log in, so they can freely choose whether to hide the "Popular Pages" on the side and/or the "Fan Feed" at the bottom, and can make edits whenever they want, which can help increase active users. Logging in can also reduce ads.
:Regarding the limits imposed by Fandom, I think it is impossible to escape from any limits imposed by wiki hosts as long as we are not independent wiki sites. Therefore, we may have to accept some limits and actively communicate with the wiki host to balance the host's measures with our freedoms. Of course, I think it's a bit improper of Fandom to add links of other wikis and their pages (and sometimes something inappropriate) that are completely unrelated to the content of the page.
:There are now three options: Move to a different wiki host; Set up an independent wiki site; Stay in Fandom.
:If we move to a different wiki host, the first and most immediate impact is the delays of the different wiki hosts. According to the delay test results of [https://ping.chinaz.com chinaz.com website], the delays (which I concern more) of other wiki hosts in China mainland are 50-100ms more than Fandom in average, which is sometimes the difference between accessing the website and connection timeout. However, the flow we may have brought to the wiki host can generate more income for it and use the income to improve the quality of the server connection. The second is the impact to SEO, which I don't know much about, so I won't analyze it. Of course, there is also advantages of this option, one of them is the limits imposed by the wiki host can be reduced.
:If we set up an independent wiki site, the first problem is how much budget we need to keep the server sustaining. Perhaps the major ways are donations and ads. Secondly, the moving of SEO and flow may not be as successful as moving SEO and flow to a different wiki host, after all, we set up our own site. There is also a risk of cyber attacks that will affect the website negatively. However, the advantage of this is quite clear - there are almost no limits, and everything is up to us. However, I personally think that this is likely impossible and will be difficult.
:To sum up, I think we can stay at Fandom and continue to work to acquire more rights. Of course, above is from the view of an ordinary editor, I might have not taken into account the specific demands from admins.--<span style="background-color:#becdd5">[[User:AblazeVase69188|<span style="font-family:Minecraft;color:#ffd6db">AblazeVase69188</span>]] ([[User_talk:AblazeVase69188|talk]] | [[Special:Contribs/AblazeVase69188|contribs]])</span> 10:48, 15 June 2023 (UTC)<small>(Last edited: 04:02, 16 June 2023 (UTC))</small>
:: I think you are overly optimistic that Fandom will implement suggested changes that improve reader experience, and that we will gain more rights. Fandom is actively getting worse when it comes to readers experience, the most recent example being the forced age screening.
:: I also think you are overly pessimistic about the wiki becoming independent. We have two parties offering to host us, the simple act of them offering to host us proves that the Minecraft Wiki becoming independent is possible and can happen, it would be strange for them to offer hosting without being sure that they could actually host us. Also, I believe the wiki would fund itself relatively easily through ads, the sheer popularity of Minecraft shouldn't be underestimated. As for SEO, in the long term we will achieve the same search result spots no matter where we fork to, that being mostly the second spot, sometimes the first depending on the article. - <span style="background:#ff2b3c;padding:2px"> '''[[User:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Harristic</span>]]''' <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> '''[[User talk:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> [[Special:Contributions/Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Contributions</span>]]'''</span> 11:25, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:::There is no basis to be certain that any fork would share similar search engine positions. As I understand, the people who said that recovery is certain never explained how they reached their SEO-related conclusions. As such, it's not wrong to retain doubt in that search engine rankings will recover. --[[User:AttemptToCallNil|AttemptToCallNil]] ([[User talk:AttemptToCallNil|talk]]) 11:31, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:::: Us not asking our hosts how they came to those conclusions does not mean those conclusions cannot be a basis for at least some certainty, though the information would be nice to have. - <span style="background:#ff2b3c;padding:2px"> '''[[User:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Harristic</span>]]''' <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> '''[[User talk:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> [[Special:Contributions/Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Contributions</span>]]'''</span> 12:59, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:::As an ordinary editor of China mainland, I concern more about the stability of the connection to the host. So, no matter which host the wiki will move to (if you finally decide to move), I hope the delay not being too bad (compared with Fandom) can be guaranteed, which will also be friendly to both readers and editors.--<span style="background-color:#becdd5">[[User:AblazeVase69188|<span style="font-family:Minecraft;color:#ffd6db">AblazeVase69188</span>]] ([[User_talk:AblazeVase69188|talk]] | [[Special:Contribs/AblazeVase69188|contribs]])</span> 04:02, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
: I strongly support the wiki moving platforms to one that has no editing limitations and uses the default MediaWiki theme.--[[User:Eduaddad|Eduaddad]] <sub>(''[[User talk:Eduaddad|talk]]'')</sub> '''<small><span style="color: green">pt.Wiki Administrator</span> </small>''' 16:16, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
:<s> I don't support the forking, mainly for following reasons, after discussing with wiki admin team from Chinese:</s>
# <s>The connection of the website. Well, this is the main problem happened in China, as a foreign website the connection is usually poor no matter where the wiki hosted in.</s>
# <s>SEO, of course. Similiar to the above one, is ''really'' poor.</s>
# <s>Advertisement. This seems still exists, and we don't know if our community will accept them.</s>
# <s>The separation between the two administrating team, and even the potential separation of the entire community.</s>
# <s>P.S. When other websites mention the "Minecraft Wiki" or refer contents from MCW, we can simply learn that this is from the MCW hosted in Fandom, but if we fork one to another wiki farm, it's unclear that where is the content from unless they give a link to this wiki. However, as far as I know, most of the websites just simply mention that "this content is from Minecraft Wiki" without a direct link to here and <u>they (also includes the readers) don't really care where the wiki hosted</u> and just choose the better one.</s>
: <s>To short, MCW in other languages have their own thoughts and problems about this forking. For the Chinese one, forking will not solve the problem and even make things become worse. That's all about our concern.</s>
: {{c|info|}} We still need to have a further discussion about our zh-wiki, if en-wiki has been confirmed to move to another farm! --[[User:Lxazl5770|<span style="font-family:Segoe Print; color:HotPink;">'''Lxazl5770'''</span>]]<sub>'''zh.admin'''</sub>(<strong>[[User talk:Lxazl5770|论]]</strong> ▪ <strong>[[Special:contribs/Lxazl5770|功]]</strong>) 08:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{c|info|}} To hopefully clarify the discussion around language wikis: a lot of the previous discussions we've had about forking assumes that all languages would either move together or stay on the same platform. That doesn't necessarily have to be the case; some language wikis may opt to fork with others remaining on Fandom. However, if the EN wiki in particular moves then I'm not sure what effect it would have on the language wikis that remain. Would there be decreased traffic coming from the EN wiki and issues for wikis that depend on EN's content? One concern already brought up is that this may split the community, and it would certainly require a paradigm shift from how we've viewed language wikis as interconnected for a long time. For language wikis currently not in favor of forking, what are your thoughts on such a situation? –'''[[User:Sonicwave|<span style="color:green">Sonicwave</span>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Sonicwave|talk]]</sup></small>''' 19:47, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
: About the retraction of ZH arguments:
: In the most recent discussions between ZH editor community, we shifted our topic from comparing benefits and disadvantages to how to reduce the negative impact as much as possible, after we realized you almost reached the consensus of forking the EN wiki.
: We are opposing previously because we are concerned about the damage to our (ZH community) interests (same as FR). In personal, I think you still not give a proper explanation to dispel our concerns (Especially the SEO one. As far as I know, some members in your community also doubt the current explanations.), despite we retracted these texts, this cannot be regarded as we give up our concerns, because arguing these become meaningless after the decision of forking is made. If I'm only a regular editor, or even only a regular reader, as a victim of Fandom's behavior, I strongly support that we should find a way to get rid of it. By contrast, as a director, more considerations must be made and get rid of the personal likes and hates. In my opinion, the things Fandom had done is degrading readers' experience, damaging our public reputation. As a result, we, the ZH administrative team, also received a lot of complainants from the community, as you received from yours. And I believe, the Fandom, for making their own profits, to sacrificing us, and killing us gradually, which is undoubtful. But, back to the most important one, the SEO problem, which brought us the potential possibilities of separating community (not just between languages), still not bring us a explanation which can persuade us to fork. To us, the current explanation seems more like a promise, not a conclusion after careful consideration, we feel unsafe to such a promise. The SEO problem must be solved before we are forking into anywhere, because the forking will definitely cause the separation. For editors, I believe we can bring them to the new place, but what about the regular readers? Does anyone have a full confidence to bring them all? I think the answer is no. Because of this, as I mentioned above that Fandom is killing us gradually, if we can't properly deal with this, sadly, we will die immediately. We can't let this happen only if we can reduce the negative impact as much as possible.
: Then, continue the explanation of the retraction, the transition of our stands is made based on you almost reached the consensus of forking. In our opinion, if the Minecraft Wiki had to fork, forking together is matching our fundamental interests. By that, we, the ZH community also started a wide discussion of choosing the best solution and try to reduce negative impacts I mentioned above as much as possible.
: After all, we need a solid and considered solution to fork, and the current one seems not. After some discussions in the ZH community, we suggested to discuss more about how to make a more detailed action plan to use our social media and the cooperation with influencer and Youtubers (or Bilibili uploaders in Chinese Mainland) to inform the fork, which should be discussed more privately to avoid any interruption. -- [[File:Anterdc99Face.png|16px|link=]] <b style="font:100% Trebuchet MS;">'''[[User:Anterdc99|<span style="color:#FF8000;">Anterdc99</span>]]'''([[User talk:Anterdc99|T]]·[[Special:Contributions/Anterdc99|C]])</b> 13:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
:: The SEO problem isn't a problem so easily solved, if the fork happens, the SEO impact will be detrimental no matter what course we take or choice we make. We can only work to mitigate it the best we can, that mainly being through promotion online and being as active as possible to stop Google considering the new wiki a duplicate and hiding it from search results. Immense work will need to be put in to change most articles in some substantial way. On one hand, this will be easier for EN, but partly harder. I believe EN has the man-power to make these changes, but many of the mainspace articles on EN could be considered complete, so finding ways to change them substantially may be difficult. Less active language wikis might not have the full man-power to pull off these changes, but due that lesser activity, many articles may be incomplete and thus could be more easily changed substantially. If this work is put in, the SEO problem should become far less prevalent and we can achieve SEO second only to Fandom. The Fandom wiki will become immensely less active, meaning its editors will not be able to completely stay on top of new additions and changes to Minecraft, meaning there will be times where new content and features are released, and the only search result will the new wiki, because the Fandom wiki has not created that article. Completely beating Fandom's SEO is something that may only happen in half a decade or more, but we can work to compete with it as much as possible. (Having better SEO than Fandom is possible, see Inkipedia, an ABXY-hosted wiki (ABXY is one of our proposed hosts) which has its Fandom counterpart completely beat in terms of SEO. No I am not stating that this is a realistic goal for us to achieve soon, it is just something I am pointing out).
:: A name change could certainly help with easing the process of promotion, it would stop readers from confusing the two wikis together, and allow people who know about the fork to specifically search for the new wiki. In the EN MCW discord, the name "Minepedia" has been talked about a lot and has seen support by quite a few, though certainly not all. My suggestion is to have Minepedia as our brand and domain name (the domain name <code>minepedia.net</code> is owned by [[User:DarkShadowTNT|DarkShadowTNT]], so it is available to us), but links that appear in search results would show "Page Name - Minecraft Wiki". Some have said that the name "Minepedia" could hurt credibility of the wiki, so the suggestion alleviates that concern mostly. A unique name also simply makes it easier for people and content creators to spread the word about the new wiki, they can simply recommend people visit Minepedia, instead of doing the confusing task of explaining the difference between two wikis with identical names, and how to find the correct one.
:: We cannot provide more than basic advice on promotion, different languages will have different avenues for promotion, and more detailed plans will need to be made within specific language communities.
:: Overall I am unsure what to recommend to ZH, I would recommend that you stay at Fandom, as a fork is too big of a risk, but it seems that is not an option for you. A fork is always a risk, some can afford to take that risk more than others. - <span style="background:#ff2b3c;padding:2px"> '''[[User:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Harristic</span>]]''' <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> '''[[User talk:Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#23267f">|</span> [[Special:Contributions/Harristic|<span style="color:#23267f">Contributions</span>]]'''</span> 15:35, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
: I'm generally in favor of forking from Fandom. The reader experience on the wiki has been continuously getting worse in turn resulting in a damaged reputation and less editors as well as regular complains. There are a few huge issues I'm seeing with forking though, which we will need to consider:
: Global CDN: The Minecraft Wiki is huge with readers around the globe, not even considering the large non-English wikis which might fork together with the English wiki. Due to that we will most certainly need a global CDN setup or response times for readers would be horrible. Not all of our current hosting offers seem to include that, which would be a blocker for me. However some do, so I do think forking is an option.
: SEO: Another huge issue is of course SEO. Fandom won't close the existing wiki, so we will have to directly compete with the current wiki. This will be very hard as the Fandom wiki is many years of established usage and linkage ahead of us. Contacting YouTuber and other influencers to announce and report on the fork has been suggested, to help with the initial hurdle of getting readers to know about the fork. And while I think this is an important part for getting users to know about the fork, I don't think it alone will be enough to give the new wiki enough of an SEO push to compete with the Fandom wiki. This is for the simple reason of Google hiding duplicate content: Meaning when two sites have the same content, only the more established site (most definitely the Fandom wiki) will be displayed, with the other site not showing up at all. I see this as the biggest issue for any fork, because it makes the new wiki almost impossible to find, even for users who are aware of the fork. Some users suggested a name change to allow specifying the search query like "minecraft piston wikigg" or "zombie minepedia", but that would only help for users aware of the fork. So the only real option against duplicate content is to change all wiki pages, layout or content wise, after the fork. This will be a lot a lot of work for the editors, specially on non-English wikis with less editors overall. So any wiki considering to fork, need to keep in mind that it will be a lot more work than just moving the pages to a new site. However when the editor community thinks they are able to do this additional work, I do think a fork can be successful. --[[User:MarkusRost|MarkusRost]] ([[User talk:MarkusRost|talk]]) 14:25, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
: Strongly support forking this wiki – <span style="background:#102;border:2px ridge #f0f;border-radius:2px;padding:1px">[[User:JEC6789|<b style="color:#c7f">JEC</b>]] [[User talk:JEC6789|<sub style="color:#f7c">'''talk'''</sub>]]</span> @ 20:55, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
: Also full support from me for forking this wiki. Terraria already did it, put in the work to announce it to the community, and they sure got out before this whole "Fandom wants to know your age" garbage. [[User:FrozenEarth|FrozenEarth]] ([[User talk:FrozenEarth|talk]]) 23:22, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
: I support forking the wiki. - [[User:CrowdingFaun624|CrowdingFaun624]] ([[User talk:CrowdingFaun624|talk]]) 04:05, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{c|Support}}. I have to say I am deeply dissapointed with Fandom, especially staff's decisions. Staff doesn't care something is too much. They add ads everywhere they can - in global nav, on top of the pages (with an ad which takes half the screen), ads in right sidebar (signifying that nobody had learned from the right sidebar fiasco on pre-Gamepedia wikis), ads/promotions between content and now we have ads directly inside the wiki's content. I also have to mention Fandom's age screening mechanism (which is poorly described and its only goal is to maximize profits) and the inability for anons to use file pages --[[User:TreeIsLife|TreeIsLife]] ([[User talk:TreeIsLife|talk]]) 06:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{c|Support}} forking. -[[User:TheGreatFall|TheGreatSpring]] <small>([[User talk:TheGreatFall|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/TheGreatFall|contribs]])</small> 13:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
: Strongly {{c|Support}} the fork - [[User:DEJVOSS|DEJVOSS]] ([[User talk:DEJVOSS|talk]]) 18:32, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
:{{c|Oppose}} forking. What we'll end up with is a new wiki that doesn't have "offical" status that nobody will read or find, because Fandom prohibits redirecting or linking out to it from ''this'' wiki, even if it's defunct. I would support instead the establishment of an actual "official" wiki hosted by Microsoft, as long as it accepts community contributions. [[User:Amatulic|Amatulic]] ([[User talk:Amatulic|talk]]) 00:58, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
:: I disagree that nobody will read the wiki. I mean, check Reddit. You see every other week people are dissatisfied with the wiki. People are concerned about number of ads, the layout and the practices Fandom makes on nearly day-to-day. In the end, people come up with conclusions saying the wiki decreased in quality. And even in editor communities, you can see people had left the wiki because Fandom. Now, it's also possible wikis can be used as advertisement tools too, as happened recently with McDonalds wiki. --[[User:TreeIsLife|TreeIsLife]] ([[User talk:TreeIsLife|talk]]) 11:59, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
: While much of the arguments have already been said, I want to throw my hat into the ring and say that I {{c|support}} the fork because I believe it provides an opportunity to significantly improve both the reader and editor experience. The biggest concern is of course SEO, but I believe that given proper planning and advertisement, we can mitigate those issues. Eventually, the fork will be better than what we can achieve on Fandom. It also provides a valuable opportunity to re-engage with the community, try out new things, and attract new editors since Fandom has distanced some from this community. Regardless of the decision though, I will stick with the community. [[User:Ishbosheth|Ishbosheth]] ([[User talk:Ishbosheth|talk]]) 05:12, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{c|Support}} forking. Based on recent changes Fandom has done by overthrowing wikis for paid advertisements and investment in AI to build out wikis faster. Fandom isn't what it used to be anymore. - [[User:Azgoodaz|Azgoodaz]] ([[User talk:Azgoodaz|talk]]) 14:43, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{c|Comment}} about the fork: As a representative of the Spanish Minecraft Wiki, I communicate to you that we decided to not fork together with EN on the initial fork, as we'd prefer to see how well it goes for EN to actually take a decision. In any case, if it wasn't because the possibility of forking all language wikis instead of letting them all decide for themselves, I probably wouldn't be commenting here. I encourage any editor of a non-EN Minecraft Wiki to make their own communities decide themselves about the fork proposal, because while EN can decide by themselves, non-EN variants are their own thing and should take decisions by themselves without worries. Now about my own personal opinion, I can't say I personally support or oppose the fork, it has pros and cons, so I'll personally stick with a {{c|Neutral}}. --[[User:Supeika|<span style="color: #197b0c; font-weight: bold">Supeika</span>]] ([[User talk:Supeika|contáctame]]) 18:47, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
:{{c|Support}} I've been a community member firstly involved with Polish Minecraft Wiki and later ocassionally being involved with English Minecraft Wiki (mostly via Discord, sometimes small edits and discussion participation) for almost 10 years now and I support the fork, here is why:<br><br>I've joined up the wikis when they were hosted on Gamepedia, those who remember those times likely know how much have changed since then. Without going on a nostalgia trip, I want to say that wiki platforms always have problems. Gamepedia had, Fandom has if wiki forks the next one will have different set of problems. Point is, no matter where we go, we'll still have issues, of one or other type. And yet, I still believe in forking.<br><br>Being a global volunteer at Gamepedia and later Fandom I've had first hand experience seeing and hearing how those companies work internally, and this experience, combined with high Internet presence for past 15 years taught me a bunch of things. One of them is that Fandom, just like any other corporation owning a big Internet platform is focused on making money first and foremost. This is an indisputable fact of a capitalist world we live in.
:Main reason why I support fork is that I don't trust Fandom. I don't trust Fandom to keep the platform on the same level of usability as until now, I don't trust them not to introduce intrusive features such as lately popular restriction of public APIs, more problematic restrictions such as existing lack of file pages for anonymous users, or give in into abusive/borderline unethical AI functionalities for platform features. There is a pattern that many Internet users are now aware of called "enshittification" - it refers to commercial products getting awful for some reason, we recently observed it happen to Tumblr, Twitter, Twitch, Reddit. And while those services are different in many ways, they also share one common denominator with wikis - user generated content. I do not believe that the same happening to Fandom (some would say it already is enshittified) is unthinkable, and I don't believe that thinking it will eventually happen is a far-fetched idea.<br>For a while I pondered - I usually try to give people benefit of a doubt. I've been living in assume good faith mentality for so long, so why exactly am I now doing the exact opposite and for no reason don't trust Fandom to keep communities happy? And after recent unrelated incident I understood - it's because of history, past actions and continued conduct of Fandom as a company. My lack of faith isn't born of hatred, or natural dislike towards capitalist entities - it's based on patterns and continued actions done by Fandom that keep me away from trusting it.<br><br>Almost 3 years ago I've spawned internal discussion with Minecraft Wiki directors at that time on the Discord server - the topic was the same as today's. Back then the argumentation I've brought forward for this was as follows:
* Domain migration from Gamepedia to Fandom and how wiki conflicts were to be handled (if a wiki already existed under given name on fandom.com domain, and Gamepedia wiki had more views/content it would be moved somewhere else completely breaking links and community trust),
* lack of trust towards Fandom,
* improvement of reader experience by minimizing advertising and spyware,
* Fandom branding being slapped everywhere,
* loss of features due to UCP platform (granted, Fandom did a good job on minimizing the fallout),
* instability of Fandom platform (at that time it was ''bad'').
:Others brought arguments such as:
* Fandom lacking transparency when talking with communities,
* limitation of admin abilities to manage their communities according to the will of the community,
* incompatibility between how Fandom operates vs. how Gamepedia operates,
* Gamepedia brand being diminished.
:You can rate how much of this argumentation still applies today by yourself. I'm still unhappy about removal of Gamepedia brand which had more positive recognition around the Internet than Fandom does, I'm still unhappy about URL structure and also fandom.com domain, pushing branding in every corner is still a problem.<br><br>Regular Fandom layoffs showing bad management ([https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/fandom-layoffs-giant-bomb-gamespot-metacritic-tv-guide-1235495258/ 2023], [https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Perkinsmt/Fandom_Staffing_Update 2020], but they happen more frequently and are in Fandom's culture as evidenced by [https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Fandom-Reviews-E428648.htm Glassdoor reviews]).
:Creating new programs that [https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Pikushi/Admin_Plus_Update?commentId=4400000000003469916 are problematic] when it comes to wiki culture.
:Recent [https://kotaku.com/mcdonalds-grimace-wiki-ad-happy-meal-fandom-history-1850552640 Grimace/McDonalds incident] also proves to me that Fandom is simply not a reliable platform for communities to be on. Putting advertisement in content of actual articles replacing community made content is problematic on many levels, including harassment towards wiki administrators/editors, ethical issues with how user generated content on wikis is being treated by platform hoster, control by communities over their wikis, license issues with content added by Fandom employees and more.<br><br>I could probably go on and on considering I've had numerous complaints about Fandom across the years, but that would take time and I'm already overdue with this response. The crux of it all is that Fandom serves its parent company which serves its shareholders, not us. And we ''can'' get better terms when we ourselves define wiki's future along with our partners or supporters. We can do this for entire Minecraft community.<br><br>I do not represent Polish Minecraft Wiki community, I represent only myself, and I - an editor and administrator of Polish Minecraft Wiki support the fork, whether my fellow editors do that as well is up to them. Forking is not just using better platform, at this point it's also ethical obligation of ours to do so, in addition to necessity of preserving our values. [[User:Frisk|Frisk]] ([[User talk:Frisk|talk]]) 🐐🧼 08:16, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{c|Support}} forking the wiki. Personally, the move to Fandom and gradual teardown of the Gamepedia brand contributed significantly to the decline in my personal interest in editing the wiki (although other reasons were involved as well). I personally find the new interface hard to work with and not particularily facilitating in encouraging users to become editors. As a logged-out user, in recent years it feels like you just want to be on the wiki for as short as possible, just for the information you need, and then leave again because the ads are obnoxious. The new and completely unnecessary "are you an adult or not" question that covers the entire screen just amplifies that even more. Though that's maybe just my subjective impression.
: Plus there's the issue of ads being placed ''inside'' of wiki content, which is straight up unacceptable.
: Another point that Frisk also brought up already is that Fandom lacks a lot of transparency in regards to communication with their communities. For example, originally when the new design was introduced, I was part of a Slack channel were we were supposed to give feedback on it, but it felt like that feedback just got thrown into the void and was not actually listened to. At some point, that channel just became dead because nobody bothered anymore to write anything there as it would just be ignored anyway. That being said, I'm not as opposed to the new design as others might be, but a lot of important links are just hidden away in weird places, which significantly contributed to my decline in desire to edit the wiki further.
: Of course I'd personally like the wiki to become completely independent to not have the risk of being in the hands of a third-party company. However I also do realize that going fully independent is a huge amount of effort and probably not feasible. As such, I would support going for a semi-independent route, i.e. not becoming part of another wiki farm, but relying on a company that provides wiki hosting. Optimally in that case we should still have the option to become more independent or switch hosts if things go south with whatever host we go with (e.g. it's being sold to Fandom or something, you never know).
: Forking the wiki will require a lot of effort, especially with adapting the wiki to improve SEO and such compared to the old Fandom wiki, and also to advertize the wiki across the Minecraft community. But I do believe that this is possible: I'd imagine a lot of the Minecraft community would be glad we're moving away from Fandom, and there are lots of news channels we could potentially use to make people aware of the move.
: I'm writing this as my personal opinion of the matter, and ''not'' in the name of the German admin team. <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[User:Violine1101|violine1101]] <sup>([[User Talk:Violine1101|talk]])</sup> 16:37, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{c|comment}} - I'm writing this on behalf of the German admin team. We just had a voice call, here's the summary:
: The German admin team is split on the issue. The consensus is to not fork at the same time as the English wiki, but to at least wait until after the English wiki has forked (if it does) for a final decision. Here are our concerns about the fork:
:* The amount of work that creating and maintaining a new fork would entail (in particular in regards of SEO) is too much, considering the amount of editors on the German wiki
:* The activity of the wiki currently is very low, probably the lowest it ever was. There are fears that forking would make the situation more severe, in particular with motivating readers to become editors.
:* Making sure readers know about the fork is difficult, even more so than it is the English wiki. Our hope is that if the English wiki forks, this momentum could carry over to the German one, but this is in no way a guarantee.
: At the same time, we have multiple issues with Fandom as it is. These are the ones we discussed:
:* The new design is not very friendly for editors, and in particular for introducing new editors, with links that previously were in the left sidebar now being scattered around the place. In particular, we noted that the very important "Recent changes" is hidden behind a small icon that is not very easy to find. We believe this is part of the cause for why we no longer have as many editors.
:* It is not possible to view file history anymore if you are not logged in, this is information that should be publicly accessible.
:* We strongly dislike the age question screen shown to logged out users, as well as the kinds and amount of ads
:* The fact that at times the article content by default only takes about 50% of the space, and the sidebar is sometimes completely empty
:* Anonymous edits are not possible, further making it harder to get started for new users to become editors
:* The search engine used by Fandom is significantly worse and less powerful than the one used while Gamepedia was still a thing
: We hope that Fandom addresses these issues in some way. We remain following the forking discussion in the English wiki, and will discuss this again once (and if) it happened. <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[User:Violine1101|violine1101]] <sup>([[User Talk:Violine1101|talk]])</sup> 17:13, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
=== Vote ===
In order to facilitate a large number of people participating in this discussion and decide on a particular host, a separate page has been created at [[Minecraft Wiki:Moving from Fandom]]. This is a partial "vote" where both the number of opinions and their supporting arguments are taken into account. I'd request for everyone to give their votes and arguments on that page, even if you have already commented here. This discussion will be closed either 2 or 3 weeks from now (July 17 or 24), depending on how active it still is by the former date. –'''[[User:Sonicwave|<span style="color:green">Sonicwave</span>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Sonicwave|talk]]</sup></small>''' 20:04, 3 July 2023 (UTC)